Nikolay, together with his wife and young son, moved to Warsaw in December last year. And recently, a man created a telegram chat “Popes of Warsaw”: there are not very many participants there yet – 20 people, but the guys have already managed (and more than once) to get out to joint parties with children.
Learned from Nicholaswhat modern fathers talk about, what it’s like to be a dad in Poland and Belarus, and whether maternity leave is beneficial for men.
- Why do you need a chat for fathers: “When a child appears, you seem to become a father, but in the first year, almost everything is done by the wife”
- Being a dad in Belarus and in Europe: “I was suspicious when I could smile at other people’s children or say “hello” on the street”
- What modern popes talk about: “It seems to me that it’s still difficult for us to cross the line when you lose your fear of strangers”
Why do you need a chat for fathers: “When a child appears, you seem to become a father, but in the first year, almost everything is done by the wife”
“I try to be a conscious father. When a child appears, you seem to become a dad, but in fact, in the first year, almost everything is done by the wife, because of which I personally felt guilty.
There was a real lack of communication with other fathers in order to understand how and what to do in order to participate in the life of the child. Of course, there are a lot of books, but, for example, if this is a Russian-language publication, they write in it that the role of a father is to earn money.
And secondly, when I go to some playground, I don’t want to just sit there alone while the child plays. This is such a common problem for expats. Yes, there always seem to be other parents there, but for example, I don’t speak Polish, and people don’t always want to answer in English.
When the idea came up, I talked to my wife, shared – and she supported me. This month we have already had more than five meetings in the playgrounds and one more in the bar. I just wanted to go somewhere with such a male company to drink beer with the chat participants. True, one guy had to take the child with him because his wife was sick, but this was not a problem either: we found an institution where there is a playground, and the father himself did not drink alcohol that evening.
– The combination of “children” and “drink beer” sounds somehow not very … Or is it normal?
– I think this is a normal reaction for those who do not have children. I agree, it sounds doubtful, but in our case, we originally planned to go to a bar without children, the situation just changed a little.
In general, at some point you just realize that it is impossible to limit yourself all the time. Often in our upbringing such a moment slips through that a child is cool and you have to give yourself completely to him, forgetting about yourself. But you don’t need to sacrifice yourself for the child to feel good: you should be comfortable living with each other together.
The biggest problem is that when you become a parent, your social circle seems to remain the same, but your friends continue to hang out as before, and you can’t do it anymore. For example, a friend writes: “Guys, I ordered a bath for 9 pm,” and you are like: “So what?” (Laughs.) These options are no longer suitable. And in the chat there is an opportunity to chat with guys who have the same problems, the same conditions – and with this you can already look for some kind of common hangout.
And the chat turned out to have a pleasant “side effect”: going to such parties with children, men thereby unload their wives, give them the opportunity to relax, to be with themselves. My wife, for example, is very happy with this initiative (smiling).
Being a dad in Belarus and in Europe: “I was suspicious when I could smile at other people’s children or say “hello” on the street”
– Surely you had the opportunity to compare what it is like to be a dad in Poland and to be a dad in Belarus. What is the difference?
– In Poland, there are significantly more involved fathers, even at the playgrounds it is noticeable.
In Belarus, in general, they look at you strangely if you talk or play with a child rather enthusiastically. Or, for example, it was suspicious that I could smile at other people’s children on the street or say “hello”. It’s like I’m trying to seduce them. And this is even despite the fact that I myself go with a stroller.
Plus, it seems to me that fathers in Belarus are more immersed in the issues of how to provide for the family, and therefore it is also difficult to be involved in raising a child.
But there is another thing – whether society is friendly to children. And in this moment there is almost no difference between Poland and Belarus: if, say, a child is riding in a stroller and smiling, they are unlikely to smile back. But in Spain, for example, if the baby just exists, a whole performance will begin around him: they pay a lot of attention to children there. There is no such thing here: yes, it seems that there are more dads who take care of children, but in general, society is not so friendly to kids.
On the other hand, I have hardly seen such a number of playgrounds as in Poland anywhere else (perhaps only in Spain, for example). At the same time, they are very cool, conveniently equipped and fenced – this is great, because you don’t have to be afraid that the child will run away somewhere.
– Or maybe you had an experience of maternity leave for fathers?
– It was when we lived in Germany: I went on maternity leave for a month. Plus, for almost a year, my working hours were reduced and there was a supplement to my salary – a maximum of 300 euros per month. It was then that we had the opportunity to travel a lot.
– And what is it like to be on maternity leave?
“Now I can’t get back to my usual work rhythm. You get used to the fact that you are constantly with the child, so it’s already difficult to sit all day, knowing that he is crying somewhere: it automatically works that you need to go and help.
In general, I was on maternity leave when my son was 6 months old. And, it seems to me, while the child is not yet a year old, such a vacation unloads the wife, but does not make her feel fatherhood. I could try to do a lot of things for the baby, but he still had a strong attachment to his mother. While a woman is breastfeeding, you are, let’s say, the fifth wheel in this relationship.
The turning point when you can really replace a child with a mother is when he comes off the chest. Since then, my son sleeps with me (my wife and I sleep separately because I snore), I can feed him myself, take care of him. It seems to me that from now on, maternity leave would be very helpful in order to form a bond between father and child.
What modern popes talk about: “It seems to me that it’s still difficult for us to cross the line when you lose your fear of strangers”
– Our chat has a branch in Minsk, which was taken up by my friend. So, a problem arose there: for some reason, the wives of those guys took up arms against the men, they say, “you will discuss us there.” But we, for example, have never touched on this topic at all. In the bar, let’s say, they talked a lot about children: two guys in the family already have several children – they shared their experience. Plus, now we are actively looking for places where it would be comfortable to go with kids: where there is a children’s room and at the same time you can eat deliciously, chat with parents. That is, these are all such everyday and very simple questions.
In general, guys communicate a little differently than girls: if communication is active at offline meetings (probably thanks to the children), then in the chat itself it still hangs a little. It seems to me that it is still difficult for us to cross the line when you lose your fear of strangers.
You know, it even became a little envious: when we first moved to Warsaw, already in the second week my wife went to some kind of meeting organized for Belarusian women. They have over 10,000 people chatting there. And you’re like, “Damn, but I just sit at home with the child all the time, or what?” For men, I have not seen such a plan of proposals.
How many people usually come to your meetings?
– Initially, two people came: me and my friend. Now there are an average of 6 people. Yes, there are not many people yet, but I like that gradually I am not alone in organizing meetings: the participants often already agree among themselves. So far, the most party area we have is Volya, since it is there that most of the guys from the chat live.
By the way, it is interesting that in our Minsk branch, communication between fathers is even more difficult. I think people are now still more focused on personal security, and Belarusians with chats you know what’s the story.
I will return to the topic of communication. We have a friend of mine in the chat, whose daughter is already 8 years old. He always seemed to me a very conscious father: one got the impression that he knew how and what to tell the child, how to teach some simple things (for example, he knows how to explain to the child that something is impossible). Therefore, I really wanted to talk with him, learn from his experience.
But other fathers from the chat have spied on this approach: when we are with my son on the site, I do not follow him around. He goes about his business, and I just watch from afar so that nothing happens to him. One day he played for 45 minutes quite calmly with himself and with other children. When there are people who have already gone through certain moments in their upbringing through their own trial and error, this is very convenient.
– What do you think, maybe the moment of awareness comes rather already on the second, third child?
– No, I think it’s just at the first one – it is at that moment that you get the main experience of fatherhood. As I understood from the stories of men who have several children, the second and third parents are almost never involved, because there are older children who help a lot in upbringing.
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